 Red Kettneraspis pigra |
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I came upon this image on the internet of a very red specimen labeled as Kettneraspis pigra. However, now I can't find where it came from! The color is amazing to me. Anyone know the origin of the red color? Where the specimen is found? Is it actually a Kettneraspis species? Does anyone have a better (but still red) specimen than this one?
Many thanks!
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Sam [goniagnostus]
A Guide to the Orders of Trilobites
http://www.trilobites.info
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08.10.2007 08:40 |
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Jens 
Moderator
Registration Date: 18.03.2007
Posts: 2,167
Herkunft: HGW, momentan Jura, Schweiz
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Hi Sam,
I visited the Kettneraspis-site some years ago, it´s near to Timerzit (north from Jebel Issimour) in rosé-coloured Eifelian shales. We (Heiko and I) found several specimens of Kettneraspis, but no realy good one.
The site Mike mentioned I did´nt know, may be, there it´s possible to find similiar material there. So far I know, the material of this beautiful coloured red Kettneraspis-bugs on the market comes from this soft, purple shales in the Maider basin.
Greetings,
Jens
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08.10.2007 14:34 |
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goniagnostus
Registration Date: 27.08.2007
Posts: 68
Thread Starter 
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They are remarkable specimens (positive and negative), then, and perhaps yours are among the best preserved to come out of the region. Although they live on your website, would you mind if some day I highlight the matched pair as a Trilobite of the Month? I suppose the red color then is some kind of iron compound? Or perhaps a Strontium dye? :]
Hmmm looking at the pygidial spine patterns, do you think these are really Kettneraspis? I suppose so, though the major spines are not much larger than the minor spines on the margin.
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Sam [goniagnostus]
A Guide to the Orders of Trilobites
http://www.trilobites.info
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08.10.2007 21:08 |
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andrue
unregistered
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hi all,
Kettneraspis pigra is described (only by bad material) from bohemia; it´s doubt,that the red specimens belongs to pigra.Maybe its unimpossible to make a correct species name,because of the heavy tectonical condition.
we will wait,what is Allarts opinion.
bye
Andreas
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10.10.2007 09:48 |
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aviersen
Inner Circle
Registration Date: 28.09.2007
Posts: 18
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Interesting specimens! They are certainly Kettneraspis rather than Leonaspis but one would really need a better preserved specimen to be sure. I agree with Andreas that despite the similarity in age, this is probably no Kettneraspis pigra. I'd label it Kettneraspis? sp. ;)
Allart
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11.10.2007 14:44 |
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pavel2
Inner Circle
Registration Date: 29.01.2007
Posts: 689
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A short question - why not Odontopleura?
Pavel
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11.10.2007 16:26 |
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aviersen
Inner Circle
Registration Date: 28.09.2007
Posts: 18
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Hi Pavel,
Two reasons not to ID it as Odontopleura or Leonaspis but rather as Kettneraspis (again, I need to stress the word "RATHER" because there is no way of being sure with only this poorly preserved specimen to go on!):
- the 3rd thoracic segment appears to be macropleural (see, e.g., the long pleural spine in the extreme left of the picture)
- there appear to be two spines between the pygidial major border spines
Allart
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12.10.2007 08:08 |
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aviersen
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Registration Date: 28.09.2007
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Glad to be of help! I must say that the morphologies of some Kettneraspis and Leonaspis from Morocco have surprised me. The differences do not always seem to be as straight-forward as in most European species. At the same time I am careful with the Moroccan material because falsification and even preparation can make a lot of difference. For instance, I've seen Kettneraspis pygidia prepped out like Leonaspis pygidia just by wishful thinking of the prepper... 
Allart
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12.10.2007 14:35 |
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goniagnostus
Registration Date: 27.08.2007
Posts: 68
Thread Starter
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Thanks Allart:
I appreciate the diagnostics of 3rd macropleura thoracic segment (and I guess the first two segments of the red specimen pair are under the cephalon) and the single pair of spines between the major pygidial spines.
So, do I guess correctly that Leonaspis
1. does not bear a 3rd macropleural thoracic spine
2. bears >1 pair of spines between the major pygidial spines
Are there any other diagnostic features that distinguish the two?
Sam
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Sam [goniagnostus]
A Guide to the Orders of Trilobites
http://www.trilobites.info
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14.10.2007 22:17 |
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aviersen
Inner Circle
Registration Date: 28.09.2007
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Hi Sam,
Unfortunately it is not that simple. I am not sure, but I think I recall having seen Leonaspis with a macropleural third segment. The pygidium should always make it easy to distinguish between Leonaspis and Kettneraspis (4 spines between major border spines points to Leonaspis; 2 spines here points to Kettneraspis). However, note that there are other similar genera with similar configurations: e.g. Edgecombeaspis, which basically looks like a Kettneraspis and also has 2 spines between the major border spines.
As for cephalic characters, there is an interesting list of potential apomorphies of Kettneraspis that were identified Adrain & Ramskold (1997, Journal of Paleontology). I always thought that their [anterior "pinching out" of the eye ridge] was a reliable one, but I have seen photographs of "Leonaspis" from Morocco that clearly show this feature as well (Mike, was that your specimen?). Then again, as I wrote here in one of the previous messages, I am very careful with trilobites from Morocco. There is usually no exact provenance known and especially from photographs there is no telling which is a complete or partial fake and which is an unaltered specimen.
Allart
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15.10.2007 10:51 |
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goniagnostus
Registration Date: 27.08.2007
Posts: 68
Thread Starter
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Heheh ;) I guess it is always not as simple as it might seem with trilobites!
Thanks for taking the time to explain some of the distinguishing features Allart.
So, if I someday use this red specimen as a Trilobite of the Month, I think the label might look something like this:
Kettneraspis (?) sp.
(which?) Fm., M. Devonian (Eifelian)
Ouihlane, Meknes Region, Tafilalt, Morocco
Image courtesy Michael Kipping
So, is there any information on the specific Formation from which this interesting specimen comes? It seems that Mike or Jens might know!
Thanks!
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Sam [goniagnostus]
A Guide to the Orders of Trilobites
http://www.trilobites.info
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13.11.2007 06:31 |
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